Women in Ministry - Book Review

My opinion is still in progress.

But when I read the arguments against egalitarianism, I want to pull my hair out! ...or at least write a blog about it. My recent reading adventure has been in Women in Ministry: Four Views edited by Robert G. and Bonnidell Clouse. All four authors believe in the authority of scripture. 

The Traditional View: Robert D. Culver

I almost appreciate Culver’s honesty for giving an actual reason (other than "God says so") for restricting women's ministry. The reason is awful, but at least he admits what other men is his position may be secretly thinking.

The first passage up for debate, 1 Timothy 2:11-14,  states that a women can’t have authority or teach, and references Eve in the creation story. To interpret this passage, Culver quotes a theology text by Bengel: "The deception [of Eve] indicates a lesser ability in comprehension, and so this limitation is why it is not allowable for a women to teach." In other words, Adam sinned knowingly, and Eve ignorantly.

Culver added that this is an "essential difference between masculine and feminine nature." The main difference between men and women is that women are less intelligent? Or more gullible? (To be honest, at this point, I lose interest in hearing anything else he has to say, except for the enjoyment of disagreeing with it.)

It's hard for Culver to accept anything new. He quoted from Thomas C. Oden, "Our ideas about pastoral ministry must by all means avoid... creativity or innovation." I agree that ministers shouldn’t do something new just for the sake of change or shock value. Yet it is hubris to assume that the current way of doing things is the best possible. We should learn from “traditional” views, but not adore them.

A Male Leadership View: Susan Foh

Again, I find it difficult to engage with this set of arguments. Foh’s hypocrisy is evident. She has given herself permission to write books, but tells us it's wrong for a women to stand in the pulpit and preach exactly what she preaches on paper. She writes with authority, yet says it's wrong for women to have authority.

As usual, the 1 Timothy passage is not treated literally. (I don't know of any churches which actually make women be silent.) Foh insists the passage commands submission, not silence.

More interesting than her arguments for her view was the complex legalism necessary to make this work in a church. Foh gives permission for a women to teach men, but only if done in certain ways and certain settings. An example:

The position of Sunday-school teacher [for adults] requires special attention... The Sunday-school teacher does not enforce his or her teachings with church discipline. It has a more informal, nonofficial, open-to-discussion character... than the official teaching of the ministry during the worship service... if a denomination or church wishes to extend the time and place for official teaching into the Sunday school, the teaching should be done by an elder and women should not participate, even in asking questions.

Maybe this is difficult for me to understand because I've never been part of a church which focused so much on pastor/elder authority. Although I would never ask questions during a sermon (because it's rude, not because I'm a woman), I have often asked questions or disagreed with points in sermon with my pastor. He's happy to discuss it with me, and if we still disagree at the end, that’s okay. Is Foh not allowed to question anything her pastor says? That sounds unhealthy to me.

In the end, her definition of authority is both confusing and frightening to me. I don't think any leader should have the kind of authority she denies to women. Men throughout history have abused authority.

A Plural Ministry View: Walter Liefeld

This leads well into Liefeld's essay. He basically argues that all leadership positions are contrary to Christ's teachings about earthly power.  Liefeld states that "The New Testament church did not ordain people to positions of authority, but designated people to positions of service."

Liefeld has an interesting interpretation about Paul's commands for women's behavior in church. Paul tried to be all things to all people in order to win them to Jesus. Liefeld suggests the 1 Timothy restrictions were meant "avoid hindering the people of his day from accepting the gospel of Christ." This suggests that in that culture, granting leadership to women would have been too extreme or controversial, and distracted people from the gospel. But today, "the situation is reversed: to prohibit a woman from having the same dignity and opportunity in church as she does in society is a stumbling block to many people."

Maybe Liefeld goes too far. I know that God does grant authority in scripture (encourage and rebuke, give instructions, etc.) yet defining exactly what sort of authority leaders should have is difficult. I don’t know if all church leadership is unbiblical- of if that’s even what Liefeld is trying to say. Maybe he is only pointing out problems with it, and what an unhealthy view of authority can have.

The word translated "authority" in 1 Timothy is a Greek word used no where else in scripture. Central to this debate is an argument of whether or not that word has a positive or negative connotation. If it's a negative meaning, that women shouldn’t have a sort of bossy, dominating authority, I agree. And neither should men. But if it's the authority to share the gospel, to correct error, to teach scripture with understanding... why restrict 50% of believers from spreading God's Kingdom in this way?

An Egalitarian View: Alvera Mickelson

The Genesis texts before the Fall are often argued on this topic. Mickelson makes two excellent observations that suggest that the second-class treatment of women throughout history is a result of living in a broken world, not according to God's design.

First, in Genesis 1, God gave to man and woman together identical responsibilities (to be fruitful, to rule, to fill the earth and subdue it). Second, in the description of why Adam need Eve in Genesis 2, the Hebrew word for "helper" does not have a subordinate meaning. The word appears twenty-one times in the Old Testament,  and seventeen of those times, it refers to God as our helper. (Obviously, God is not subordinate to man.)

Mickelson also makes personal criticisms of the way many churches assign women certain roles. "Traditionally women can plan and greatly influence almost any church activity so long as they can remain invisible." This suggests not that women are incapable or irresponsible for leadership, but that they shouldn’t be recognized for it. Yet scripture honors women who used their gifts for God’s glory.

Both Mickelson and Liefeld made excellent lists of women in scripture fulfilling roles many would have forbidden to them. Some of these include the Samaritan women in John 4 who was an evangelist by returning to her home town and telling everyone about Jesus. Mary Magdalene was sent (like an apostle) to tell the disciples of Christ's resurrection. Priscilla taught an important early church leader good doctrine. (And corrected him in the midst of his bad doctrine.)

Perhaps there isn’t a clear historical precedent for the amount of changes that we are seeing today. And there are always examples of leaders who abuse their power and do wrong. But I feel that the desire to withhold authority from women is made in fear of losing it for oneself.

Jesus called [his disciples] together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.  Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—  just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”  --Matthew 20:25-28

Note: Pastor Barbie images posted just because I like them. No deeper meanings intended.

Women in Ministry

I was an attendee of a recent Beth Moore broadcast entitled “So Long, Insecurity.” Beth Moore is a gifted and inspired speaker. I have never heard a women preach like she does.
Many conservative churches would prefer not to call it preaching, or admit the fact that she has been pastoring many women around the country. They believe what she is doing is okay because she doesn’t call it preaching, and because her ministry is directed toward women.
I see how God has blessed her ministry. But the whole conference, I kept thinking, “I wish my husband were hearing this! I wish every man I knew was here!” Only five men attended, ostensibly to run the sound booth, hiding in the corners and pretending like men don’t suffer from insecurity. I wish more men were secure enough to come and listen.

There are several confusing Bible passages about woman’s roles in the church.
For this post, I only want to call attention to some very bad arguments against women in pastor and elder roles in this book:
"50 Crucial Questions: An overview of Central Concerns about Manhood and Womanhood" by John Piper and Wayne Grudem. This is a condensed version of their book, "Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood." (I’ve only read the short version… more than enough for me.)

Piper and Grudem argue that men bear the primary responsibility for teaching and leadership, although no Bible verse specifically ordains this.


I found their arguments weakest when they say, “We believe this is true, all the time, EXCEPT for certain special circumstances…” I believe that allowing special circumstances into a case this bold collapses the argument.

For example, pg 53-54
“[We would not say] that what a woman writes in books and articles cannot be spoken audibly… Neither have we ruled out occasional lectureships and periodic addresses (as distinct from recognized Bible teaching in church) in which woman address men as well as women…
“We use the qualifiers occasional and periodic because the regularity of teaching one group of people is part of what constitutes the difference between official teaching leadership, which is withheld from women in 1 Timothy 2:12 and the unofficial guidance given by Priscilla and Aquila in Acts 18:26. We recognize these lectures and addresses could be delivered in a spirit and demeanor that would assault the principle of male leadership…. We also recognize the ambiguities involved in making these distinctions between the kinds of public speaking that are appropriate and inappropriate…”

To summarize: Women can teach God’s word to men, as long as they acknowledge and honor men's leadership. P & G make it clear that they don’t believe women to be less intelligent, less in tune with God, or less capable of teaching… only that it’s not their job. Or you could say, a women can do the same things as a man as long as we don’t admit it. Don’t give her an official title, don’t give her a regular schedule of teaching, don’t honor her with any kind of recognition. She may be the speaker, but her job is still to honor men.

The other good example is page 39-41, about women in missions:
“We do not wish to impede the great cause of world evangelization by quibbling over which of the hundreds of roles might correspond so closely to pastor/elder as to be inappropriate for a woman to fill. It is manifest to us that women are fellow workers in the gospel and should strive side by side with men (Phil. 4:3; Rom. 16:3,12). For the sake of finishing the Great Commission in our day, we are willing to risk some less-than-ideal role assignments.”

To summarize: In a foreign country, if no man is available, a women can do it.
My first thought on reading this was, isn’t American part of our mission field? And then, is God’s calling to foreign countries less than ideal? Does God not provide whatever (or whoever) is needed?

An incredible book which deals with many of P&G arguments is "Men and Women in the Church" by Sarah Sumner. I want to mention two verses she addressed gave me clarity in this topic. (pg 217-220)

It was [God] who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers. (Ephesians 4:11)

This verse does not specify gender in any of these roles. Does this verse apply to women?

2 Timothy 3:16-17, 4:1-2
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man [greek “anthropos” means Person] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

The translation here doesn’t startle me. Most English writing falls back on the male gender for pronouns. But does this, (and many, many other instructional passages) only apply to men?

If I were to re-write this passage to fit the perspective of P&G, it would sound like this:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for men in teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, and for women in teaching other women, so that the people of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work according to their gender. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give men this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage— and that women must have great patience and accept instruction.

But I believe the correct reading is this: "I give YOU this charge." Every believer is called by God to do these things.

Women are called by to their obedience to God (not men) and to serve with their gifts. Whether in a regular official capacity or not, everyone is called to proclaim God’s word.