Names and identifying details have been changed.
My friend is a white man in his 60s. (I am also white.)
Conversation shared with permission. Bold added.
Ginger
I think the post you shared about the Mike Brown situation is terrible. [a video rant of a black man yelling at black people for making things worse for themselves and blaming all their problems on white people.] I guess you found a black person to say something you agreed with so it doesn't seem racist? Obviously, rioting is an unhealthy response. But with the repeated murders of black men and woman, I can understand how they feel there is no legitimate response. I hope you can empathize, both because you are a human being and because you have a [child] who is also part of a mistreated minority. If someone told you that [disabled] people need to change themselves rather than [able bodied] people learning to be more helpful, you'd be angry. [My sister] shared a post recently about people with mental disabilities being shot by police because they didn't respond correctly. I hope this has never happened to [someone like your child], but it seems like it would be an easy excuse for police. Please stand up for victims rather than defending the people in power.
Friend
You are not understanding his message at all, listen again
This is the stupid the man was referring to, no call for this behavior, the incident of the shooting is bad, needs a full investigation, this does no good. [links to news article about violence and rioting in Ferguson]
Ginger
I understand it's a bad response. I don't think the police response is good either.
[link to article about militarized police forces]
Friend
One begets the other, every time, senseless
Ginger
That is not untrue, but it is too passive. Both sides are not equally to blame. White people have power in this country. We should use it for good.
Friend
Black people need to voice themselves without burning looting, they need to be heard not committing crimes, attitude during an arrest helps
Ginger
Many are [voicing themselves without looting]. And again, without disagreeing with you, I think you are policing the wrong people. It's like saying, we'll stop killing black people once they show us proper respect.
Friend
I do not disagree with your opinion, just more to it, you need to do some police drive arounds, love you
Friend
[link to ultra-conservative website about God & Guns! Article claims the Mike Brown shooting was justified because he beat up the cop. This was before the officer’s name was released.]
Ginger
Attacking a policeman who is sitting in his cruiser sounds like a strange story to me. The eyewitness says Mike had his hands in the air. So it depends what story you want to believe. I don't know how many shootings one can continue to believe that officers were justified in killing unarmed black men. There are too many. Thank you for talking with me today. I love you too.
Friend
Ginger, I wish the world was kind and gentle, of course it is not… So it goes. It is beginning to seem that the Ferguson Police Chief has an Attitude, wonder how he has kept or got that job. Leadership can make or break any establishment so easy. I was a semi cop while in the Navy, served as a Master at Arms on Ships and did 3 1/2 years in Corrections in [a prison]. You cannot believe the characters I came across during those times. Some people are just creeps and dangerous. Simply having a badge on spurs some people on to unbelievable attitudes and actions. Police have to build a strong exterior to put up what the public dishes out to them, sometimes it fails.
People do not have any right to disrespect police, raid stores, burn stores, attack others property. They have no right to spit, punch, name call police. They have the right to follow lawful orders by police, act civil. You cannot believe how uncivil some people are to the police for the simplest things, lies abound. Again I urge you to find a police entity to ride around with especially in a poorer neighborhood. Then get back to me.
Ginger
I believe you that being a police officer is a tough job, and there are terrible criminals to be dealt with. But there is a problem with the police. They are not treating black people the same way they treat white people. They are not using their guns appropriately by their own rules. Mike Brown didn't deserve to die. The protestors in Ferguson are mostly peaceful. The police are threatening them with guns and playing like they're in the military. A police drive by in a poor neighborhood won't convince me that black and poor people need to be treated with extreme violence.
Friend
Which came first the chicken or the egg
Ginger
I don't think that's the right question. Maybe I need yes/no answers from you:
1. Was shooting Mike Brown justified?
2. Are the police responding appropriately to protestors?
Friend
1. Looks like not, more info needed
2. The cops went overboard, little knowledge of such I guess, people have gone way over
Ginger
Read about Kajieme Powell yet?
Friend
Nope
Ginger
4 miles away from Brown's shooting, another black man was shot. Looks like he had some mental health problems, and had a small knife. Police didn't talk with him or use a taser- almost immediately shot him dead. [link to newssite with video from bystander]
Friend
I spoke with the Chief of Police of [in hometown] about 3 months back on this issue. We did not agree, I see little reason knife holders get shot, his answers were not to my liking, I have seen too much of this type killing, the cops are basically scared. Yes it is wrong
Ginger
yeah
Ginger
It makes me relieved when you sound like you agree with me, but then you post another thing on your wall, and I'm like, whaaaaaat?
On his wall:
Today I listen to a CNN report on how police officers need to be real nice to young back men so as to not upset them to acting rudely. I am astonished, with a straight face from the CNN reporter to these youths.
I do agree police need to act professional, but I do believe that was not what the black youths were referring to, they sorta want the officer to be real polite. Out work youths with nothing to do but hang out and tell the rest of us we are showing them enough respect.
What a different world some live in.
Friend:
Start with I believe in fairness, those kids want cops to bow and curtsy
Ginger
I think they want to be treated like human beings
Friend
You really need to do some ride arounds, you do not know what you do not know
ride around will broaden your vision, I did say professional, not bossy, rude, you need to actually face some of these hard heads
Ginger
It's confusing to me that you can correctly interpret what black people really want. That despite story after story of police abuse and murder of black people, you see the clear truth that it's white people who believe in fairness. A few minutes in a police car would open my eyes to the simple truth that black people are racist unemployed thugs? Even though you agree with me that this one situation has been mishandled, it's not worth fighting about because it doesn't relate to national systemic injustice?
Friend
I will try again. First, I do not believe there is a national crisis of police targeting black people. Police in the process of doing their jobs meet all kinds of people, nice, bad and pure rotten. Sometimes there is little notice of who they will encounter.
It is never okay for an officer to be judge, jury and executioner. Some officers should have never been allowed to put on a badge. Some people are just mean to the core and hide it well, and unleash their true selves in violence. They are not the norm. Some build up tension that can and does erupt in harming others.
This shooting has a big black man who has just committed a petty crime, we do not know his normal character. He somehow comes in contact with a police officer, did he panic? Did he attack the officer? Whatever occurred turned it bad for him. Did the officer act properly, we do not know for sure either way, at first glance, the man was unarmed and was shot to death. Does not look good for the officer, appears that he came up on this man and just shot him to death. That is called knee jerk reaction. It may be true, it may not be.
Is it okay for people to riot, burn and loot? Destroy a store because they think that establishment did something wrong? Is there a case to be made that the Ferguson police have overreacted.
Do you believe there is a national crisis in the USA with whites hating blacks?
Many people when encountering the police quickly reacted in the negative, many over the top. Yelling, screaming, kicking, biting etc. Until you see it hard to comprehend.
You need to face the fact there are people that are pure mean, they can and will harm for little no reason. Some wear uniforms, the hope is they are weeded out in time. There is a case to made that the Ferguson Police department needs a complete make over.
Just because a person is poor does not grant them some free ride to be a criminal or engage in such. We [his family] grew up very poor; we managed to be good citizens.
Ginger
Okay, if our major point of disagreement is "a national crisis of police targeting black people" or " a national crisis in the USA with whites hating blacks," I want to focus on that. I would phrase it differently, maybe saying the black people are treated unfairly in all levels of the justice system, and that racism all many sorts (some blatant, some subtle) deeply influences America today. If you are willing to consider that these things could be true, I’d like to collect some worthwhile evidence and have a better conversation when I see you in person in [a few months]. I know that I’m young, and it can be weird to have this conversation with someone who lived through the Civil Rights Movement in the South. But I feel like I’ve been taught all my life that racism is over- it’s been cured! White people want to believe America promotes equality and fair opportunity, and these are good things to want- but pretending the fight is over requires closing our eyes to injustice.
No comments:
Post a Comment